Wednesday, October 01, 2008

Oct 2008

Hello everyone, Anthony / murmurists here again. My Reverse Metal posting for last month - my first - generated 31 comments. Those comments, though, were offered only by CJ, Aaron, Ruela, Jaie, Lazare, Fissuresofmen, and myself. So, there remains the issue of how to convene some kind of numerically legitimate common consensus within the general ranks of the Discharge diaspora.

I personally suspect this is an impossible task - as some contributors to this blog clearly do not wish to be involved in anything approaching admin. In one sense, I cannot blame them, I have to say! Too many things in life become tantamount to another job. It's perfectly right and fine to want to blog partly as an attempt to get away from all such mundane organisation. The problem we have, however, is that there seems to be an implicit feeling in the ranks that Discharge itself needs to change and progress in order to continue.

This is a supposition, of course. The natural thing here would be to ask everyone involved is that your personal feeling. I attempted that with my last post and in my comments. Numerically speaking, hardly anyone responded. So, one is left asking such collective questions into a kind of void. The common thing here is that such voids are filled by decision-makers - who take over a given institution, often changing that institution radically.

In my view, looking at the comments which have been made, Discharge is at that point right now. One scenario which might emerge from this is - decisions will be made by those actively involved, and then complaints will be made by those not hitherto offering their ideas. That might end in fracture and upset; and, sadly, it's all too common with collectives in my experience. Let's hope not.

I took on this role because I think there's hope and I think Discharge is very much worth the effort. But, again, we are at a crossroads: (a) totally open forum with wildly-differing levels of input, wider than it is deep, or (b) a tighter-knit community of active contributors, deeper therefore than it is wide. Lazare put it best, I think, when he said: '...the team has expanded numerically but not in terms of contribution...'. This encapsulates my feeling - the lack of engagement and reciprocity being why I decided to scale down my own previously feverish postings of a while back.

Lazare also pointed out an issue with thinking myspace might be the future - in saying that the way one posts blogs on myspace tends to obscure individual authorship. I still think the profundity of Discharge lies in its collective admix, but I completely agree that it is good to know who made what. The lack of such accountability further compounds the issue of differing levels of contribution, also. Why should a limited number of hardworking contributors carry the can for those who post nothing, one might argue? With blogger, it is clear who does what.

Given all this, the question is how long do we all wait to take action? I still think of Discharge as CJ's baby, and would look to him to, if not make the decision between (a) and (b), at least to frame that decision for the rest of us.

How to practically affect this ...? Well, as I see it, the options are limited. In order to properly franchise such change, we could offer a deadline for ideas/views; with the caveat that anyone not bothering to offer their views before that is effectively voting themselves out of the group. From there, once people have registered either their commitment or disinterest, the former can decide upon roles in the way Aaron described: myspace 'editor(s)', blogger(s) 'editor' etc. I'm happy to register my own commitment here, now, and to say I'd be fine with operating Reverse Metal, so long as all those active participants wanted me to.

The larger question here, though, is - in opting to operate Discharge on that more formal footing are we losing something important about what Discharge is? I would suspect - yes, we are, and I'd say that that's inevitable. Not to do anything, however, might be to risk the thing dying a slow death.

22 comments:

Russell CJ Duffy said...

I think that perhaps sometimes I am guilty of being an over reactive parent. If I am then I would like to say sorry to all. Never my intention to load my fears and concerns for the future of discharge onto others, especially, as Anthony and Lazare have pointed out, individuals post at different rates. The thing that has generated many of my recent comments has been fear; fear over the demise of something that I helped to create and something, along with the individuals concerned, that I hold with great affection. I am very proud of discharge and I think, mistakenly, I see discharge as a fast, almost manic forum where posts are fired over with machine gun rapidity. Of course that is crap and M and Lazare and Aaron are right. QUALITY is what counts and the quality here is still absurdly high.
Sorry to all if I have allowed my emotions to cloud my intellect. Unfortunately for me (and you guys) I am very much a man of raw emotion. discharge is still vibrant and the people who contributed to Anthony's last post, and many others, are doing a grand job.

As for Anthony's remarks, and the general consensus that discharge is at a crossroads, I agree. It is knowing what path to take next that is the puzzle.

I personally am against having any one leader but, conversely, not against having an editor. I would not advocate having an editor who sets the agenda in terms of what the content should be. I really do not see that as an editorial role. We are all adults and know, by and large, where our responsibilities lie. I would favour ‘voting’ in, on a rolling basis, and maybe for a six to one year term, an ‘elected’ editor. One who would then take discharge down what ever road/path they thought appropriate.

Bless you Anthony for the courtesy and respect. Must sound odd coming from an aging punk but the modern world seems to be losing any concepts of honour or courtesy. I still do not want to be a ‘boss’. I have been in my working life and always have felt slightly uncomfortable with it. We patently need ‘line managers’ but bosses? I don’t think so.

The one way that I used to employ, with people who didn’t contribute, was almost exactly as you describe, and one of the reasons there have been so many discharges. After a period of say six months without a single post or, at the end of that particular D 1. 2. 3 or whatever, I simply wouldn’t send them an invite! It is hard though; and as by way of an example, take Matina. I am very impressed with Matina’s work and wouldn’t like to see her as not a part of the team but she very rarely posts anything here. In theory she go. TICTAC hasn’t posted for a good two or three months but I know she has personal problems and I think it would be churlish to delete her without a by or leave.

As for where to take the big D, I would love for both the blog and the myspace sites to continue precisely as they are now BUT, we need some fresh impetus; art cannot flourish, in my opinion, in a stagnant pool and therefore we must explore new, at least for us, uncharted areas. I am taken by Kek-W’s idea of a chapbook. I would like to see this concept come to fruition. It would of course be limiting in one sense as you couldn’t reproduce either sound or GIF files but it would be funky to have something in print. Wouldn’t it? Or is that a sign of the era I hail from? Books and print being far more up my street than anything electronic!

Anyway, these are my thoughts. Hopefully, I have covered most of what Anthony mentioned. If not, please don’t shoot me!

Cheers.

murmurists said...

Cheers Cj. Nothing there I disagree with - and thanks for your kind words. And no no, mate - honour, respect and good manners are things I value above anything. So, I'm glad to see those mentioned. I've never seen any rudeness on Discharge, I have to say; which is quite something, of course, for any collective. Bless you too, matey; and no need to be sheepish about your emotive approach. It shows you give a shit and that you're alive. I'm always grateful for that initial invite, CJ, and I've loved being part of this phenomenon.

Your point about TicTac flags up my feeling that you have to be the one to usher in any radical format change. You have your finger on the pulse in that respect. Poor TT - hope whatever it is gets sorted. And you're dead right about Matina, too. I love what she does - and ousting a great artist like her over some technicality is frankly silly, inane, insulting. I've been no active participant myself; so I really do not want to see some kind of daft cull.

So, what is it we are wanting in terms of change? What prompts people to say Discharge requires a shake-up?

For my part, I'm just here to help keep Discharge going and going well. I'm personally advocating nothing except that I'm willing to work to make this happen - by articulating, as far as I can, the issues as I see them, here in Reverse Metal. If others have actual ideas let's see some bullet points!

CJ, perhaps prepare a mail circular to everyone involved in Discharge...?

I am not Kek-w said...

Ref: the chapbook...time conspired against me taking this any further.

I had another idea - one I am almost embarrassed to mention since I escorted myself to the door a few weeks back, so to speak.

I had an idea for a Discharge Variant - call it "Discharge Zero", for sake of convenience.

It would be a book that was progressively added to as it was physically mailed around the contributors. I had been thinking of a photo album type thing (the sort of thing you buy in Boots for £4) or a large wallet that contained plastic inlays that could then be used to hold pieces of paper that contained writing, photos, drawings, objects, DVD-rs, CDs containing music, spoken word, etc. The contributors' imagination would be the only restricting factor. People would collage/paint the cover and turn it into a marvellous 'magical' object.

It would be a physical object, but have that rolling, onwards-moving feel that the Blogspot Discharge has...it would be passed sequentially around a mailing list of Dischargers who wanted to contribute (a bit like the old Mail Art thing) - there would be an index in the front, where each contributor signed/dated their name (but perhaps no info apart from the page number they contributed?) Perhaps some sort of arbitrary set of rules governing use - like perhaps one page per contributor? Or perhaps each contributor responds to the previous page - or maybe no rules.

When the book is finished/full - perhaps it's photograph or document its existence in some way, then bury it in a box at some location decided by Dischargers, or offer it to a gallery, or whatever the democratic process decides.

Just a suggestion - if anyone thinks this has merit then please feel free to do whatever you think needs to be done.

murmurists said...

Kek - apologies for not picking up on the chapbook idea in my blog or comments. I've been far too preoccupied with the admin / future issues.

I love the idea of a chapbook - as I think I've said before, I'm made and contributed to many in my time. Objects are nice; even in this digital age we are told we live in.

I did my Ph.D. on Mail Art. The phenomenon you cite used to get called 'add-to-and-return'. I've been involved in thousands of these; and they are, as you say, really interesting as a way of artworking. Of course, they necessitate exchanging postal addresses - and, I suspect, not all will be into the idea of that.

By all means, though, mail me direct and we can discuss the notion.

Russell CJ Duffy said...

Oh, but dear chaps (and chapbooks!) I am. Interested that is in Kek's splendid idea. E-Mail me and I will send you my address. In fact I will give you my wife and children for a small fee!!

I am not Kek-w said...

"In fact I will give you my wife and children for a small fee!!"

LOL - mine are enough, without anyone else's :) We just laid on a holloween party for 14 kids - phew!

Yeah, the "Add and Return" strategy needs to be re-investigated...there's prob. loads of folks doing this already, so apologies if I'm rehashing stuff in the current sub-underground domain, but it struck me we might be able to forge some links/new overlaps betwn analogue and digital approaches here...the 'wallet' book approach might allow inclusion of digital media such as CD-r and DVD-r without substantially adding to mass/volume of art-object - so you end up with a physical/analogue object that is essentially a 'book' but contains 'chapters'/sections that are digital creations alongside trad.forms like short stories, poetry, drawings, paintings, small sculpural objects, etc...the idea is to keep the weight dn but maintain a density of narrative information in a plethora of media...still maintain the idea of a 'book'...

"Of course, they necessitate exchanging postal addresses - and, I suspect, not all will be into the idea of that." - yep, I totally get that, but there might be a way of stage-managing this via temporary g-mail addresses, so that only the sender and the sendee are aware of each other's addresses, so we don't need to mass-publish or maintain a list of physical addresses....

I'm sure other folk are probably pursuing similar activities, so there's prob. not an ounce of originality in this idea...but it seemed like a way out of a Discharge creative 'stalemate', plus it also 'physicalises' the Discharge philosophy and process...whether that's actually a good thing or not - only you guys can decide.

I think there's a lot of mileage in Discharge in how it is currently structured and runs, but stagnation is a very real threat and needs to be combatted...I'm a big fan of creating connectve networks, but the big question is always: what next? Collectives, like empires, always die or fizzle out - how to maintain the spark and the enthusiasm? How to maintain engagement on individual and group level - those are questions that are as important as exploring the basic creative urge...

anyways...

yeah, will mail at some point...bear with me - i am slow...

Best, Kek

Russell CJ Duffy said...

I quite fancy the idea of pursuing the 'basic natural creative thingy' but not if I have to tavel to Wessex and shag Kek!

murmurists said...

Is it the travelling which bothers you, CJ? It is quite a distance, I suppose.

Anyway... ! Are we any nearer to knowing people's thoughts on the future of Discharge?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

dear Anthony and SIRtainly all,
i'm not ignoring but have signed out
as i only get crap done mostly and especially
recently i barely make it to eat¬

love and power UP to all you great ones!
i bow¬
& thank you all
for letting me be part
which i couldn't catch up
with it's greatness you all serve¬

Jaie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jaie said...

Hi guys.

I'm sorry for not replying sooner.These can be difficult to read to my eyes, but I like that, lets see who is still standing after it. And now that I reply, I'm not sure I have anything to say. Nothing that you cannot probably see. Other than a stat counter i like, because I like to know how many people veiw my work. well, lots of laughs. I am thinking of this place and well, Anthony has introduced me to it's serious side. ok well take care all.

Anonymous said...

Jaie, which serious side has been introduced,
I'm curious?!

John Moore Williams said...

i love Kek's idea and would happily contribute work and an address.

Russell CJ Duffy said...

Hi chpas and chapesses!

I will send out, as Anthony suggested, an E-mail. I will try and get it done as soon as I can.

Cheers!

Aaron Held said...

I'm sorry for not being around as much as i would like to be, minds going into different directions, i want to respond to this..but is it necessary i still believe that it should be run by the people who are active at the time, and we should get our voice out more with a chapbook or something that's my opinion...

Ruela said...

A chapbook it's a good idea.

Lazare said...

Hi. I'm not against discharge taking other forms, and of course you should do as you please, but I thought that the internet was the step forwards! The level of communication we can achieve through the net is, in theory at least, unparalleled. We were discussing what form the online (the one and only for now) discharge should take. I find physicality more limiting. For me, the net is the only medium, out of it my work would disappear. So that's my take on those subjects, without taking account of identity disclosure issues and the inconveniencies of snail-mail.

Having said that, I think we should continue with the main subject. "Slow death" are terrible words, but just. I'm against any particular individual taking control. If that happens, I'll leave. None of us should be under the will of another, no matter how righteous. What I think we should do is constitute a more formal assembly for decision-taking. Via e-mail, let's say. That demands commitment. Let's express our views on the next discharge level that way, and whoever keeps silent will lose their chair...
That's part 2 - "invisible" contributors. A call for attention is needed. Around of emails form c.j. shoul solve that. "Please express clearly if and in what way are you willing to contribute to discharge in the foreseeable future" might be the exam question. I don't think that would be too intrusive. We need cleaning house, if you excuse my rudeness.

My own answer is - I'll keep contributing, if not frequently. I'm willing to impose myself a two postings per month minimum. And I can't promise quality control! I can't do more than that. Some myspace maintenance, maybe.

Let's take the bull by the horns, mates. This is going on for too long. Incertitude makes markets crash.

LOVE

Lazare said...

Oh, and I vote (b). "Tighter knit".
It's "bond or unravel".

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
murmurists said...

Lazare, I completely agree.

Proof of the pudding...

TICTAC said...

Hola!

Thank you CJ for your kindness and your good wishes Anthony.
My absence from Discharge, was not for lack of commitment and interest but for unfortunate personal problems, as CJ mentioned. And under the circumstances my creativity was not at the level to offer the quality I expect from my work. I agree with D’s progress, investigating new forms of expression, the duality of myspace and the blog, I love the chapbook idea. I am happy to go along with whatever changes the majority wants to make. Frequent posting is not a problem for me but my english is so my other contributions are quite limited.

Besos