Hello everyone. Anthony / murmurists here. This is my first proper Reverse Metal posting since taking over duties from CJ; or C.J. Duffy as he's known these days. I intend to post monthly here, on or around the first of each month. The function of Reverse Metal in relation to the Discharge series has always been to offer some kind of topical commentary on how things are going; together with CJ's trademark escatological remarks, similarly trademark warm welcomes and warm farewells to folk coming and going, and the odd attempt to take Discharge to other levels. It is my intention, really, to continue in this manner, and to, perhaps, if people turn out to be up for it, generate a few debates about topics germane to the blog itself. I've been here since Discharge was just called Discharge; and I used to be an ardent, most often daily contributor. Since we entered the 4th incarnation I've seldom taken an active part, however. In terms of Reverse Metal, this might be a good thing, in my view. I have felt guilty about being so lax; but there are only so many hours in a day. That said, I do survey the blog often, and have never had a dull visit, I can say. I really do think Discharge has produced some fine fine work; and I've encountered some great artists via here, for sure. I count several amongst my very favourite cyber friends - and I return to their work repeatedly, for fun and for inspiration. D4's role-call is seemingly vast these days. As ever, it moves in fits and starts, and the work ebbs and flows. I see the various styles and voices. But, to me, Discharge is one thing; and that is its real strength, in my view. I once started a debate by musing that one day someone from the mainstream will win The Turner Prize with a blog, a myspace etc. The establishment with then be telling us how cutting edge and now such media is. We will all laugh a hollow laugh. And whilst £40,000 would come in handy - and we'll frown at the charlatan walking away with it - we can play the hopeless idealist and say 'yeh, I was doing that years ago'.
Best wishes,
Anthony
32 comments:
Thank you M ;)
Thanks & best wishes Ruela
The one thing that I feel duty bound to say is this: what an excellent job Aaron is doing on the myspace site.
The friends seem to be growing hugely and by the day and the site seems to be thriving even more than its parent blog site.
I am really chuffed with that.
Still a great pity that we didn't get around to doing the chapbook that Kek spoke of. That would have been very interesting. Something for the future perhaps?
Cheers for the additions, CJ. As I said, I'm not up-to-speed on the various comings and goings - and will have to leave those elements to you and others who are. I assumed it was still Robert who was handling the myspace; having no idea Aaron had taken over, or was helping; whichever it is. I'm glad to see you are Aaron - as I said earlier, you were my personal suggestion. Great job - with all those recent blogs on there. Thanks a lot. I agree CJ - the myspace is looking more active than the blog. That was my whole personal reason for shifting my own activities to myspace. It's just more exactly set-up for networking, connecting etc. I do think blogs are wonderful - but one has to work hard to spread the word. It just seems to be a natural element with myspace. The chapbook idea was a good one, I agree. I've contributed to a few recently. Their physicality is anice element. But, in my view, we are best putting our energies into affecting a plan for some future Discharge 5. Should it be over to myspace, perhaps? ...with everyone having password etc., blogging there, altering the page by adding to it, adding pictures, words, films. It's all possible.
What do people think?
I for one am more than happy to go along with whatever changes the team want to make, especially with regard to myspace. Might be an idea though to simply re-name the existing myspace site as d5 rather than set up a new one?
yes we could all add our own little flavor to the myspace, change around the info and such, mayke the myspace itself a collective piece just like the blog, i like blogspot alot better but for exposure and meeting up with new artists, myspace is great.
Rob should get credit for the friends i gave up on that.. the captcha tries me nuts! but i have been keeping the place updated to the blog. changed the profile pic to..seems fitting.
I'm up for anything as well, i've talked to cj about a group video/film but maybe if we add in everyone style/form more people would want to do it, i donno anythings cool by me..
nice post murm!
Thanks Aaron. I marvel at your energy, and thank you for your efforts to further what Discharge is.
It all depends what people want - as ever. In my view, art deserves and demands to be seen; so some meaningful degree of networking is a must. As such, one looks for contexts and systems which aid that. Within the terms we are talking about, that suggests myspace over blogger. If we do shift emphasis to myspace, I suggest keeping it as Discharge - and loosing the numbering system; which was conceived, as I always thought, in order to solve a kind of practical problem of archiving, rather than part of a creative statement. From the myspace portal, it would be fine to direct interested parties to our substantial archives; and these could be as they are - blogger addresses. It all forms a significant body of work; and with the right portal, to those with eyes to see, it will be a lovely discovery.
The myspace Top Friends system makes it possible to easily display avaters for those involved - up to 40, of course; so no limitation. Even if some contributos didn't want to be otherwise active on myspace, they could just make private profiles, with basic info, and not bother adding friends etc. For those who are active on myspace, it just makes a better, clear, more simple direct connection to those spaces. The whole thing pans-out as one big rolling community.
I wouldn't personally give open access to the administrative end of things. That would just be chaos, I think; and, plainly - as CJ has often griped - some join and then never even post. So, let's say admin access happens after some period. I know this sounds editorial. But every situation has its limitations. There'd be no question of anything being refused - ever.
On that, though, contributors have to be aware that myspace is more policed than blogger. Nipples get you deleted; and some of the stuff on Discharge blogger could just not appear on its myspace. Maybe people hate that idea - ideologically, as it were; it is censorship, of course. In my view, though - as idealistic as I think I am - I've never encountered any truly open forum, and that's without getting into the deeper recesses of one's own psychological barriers and how these play out inter-subjectively in any community. So, I accept the 'rules' of myspace; as I accept the rules of other places. I'd like to levitate - but gravity stops me.
I'll trade all that for making effects that matter.
Any views?
Again, I am overjoyed to see my creation, in a parental type way, grow beyond all my my hopes and original concepts. Great to see such a talented bunch of people work so well as a collective.
I, from a personal view point, would keep a blog site going but only as an accompaniment site to myspace. The reason that I would favour keeping a D5 is for excatly the reasons that Anthony spoke of - censorship. If we have two sites, myspace being the cetral focus with D5 blog as a support system. We then could post some 'leftfield uncensored' stuff on the blog while keeping the myspace site 'clean'.
Only a thought but worth considering?
PS. And if anyone deletes or goes near my nipples they will get a big boot in their crutch!!!
That's a plan, CJ. One person or another could look after the various outlets and tasks. That way, the collective status of Discharge would not translate as pure chaos, cancelling out our efforts. In the end, I think it comes done to drive and an effective degree of organisation.
Other people need to offer their ideas and opinions.
I would like to see us all taking a role or at least all who want to, like it has been recently..I think it's better so nothing falls on just one person, and we can pick up after someone if they leave or take a break...might add more to the transformation of discharge.
i would like to apologise, here, for any inconsistencies in my text. After looking back I often see, some quite huge errors in things I meant to say and didn't and things i said but didn't mean to say, others not so large but still daunting.
e.g on the Piece 'Love at first' I said, three's company...what I really meant to say is three's a crowd as the famous saying goes. This i find upon looking back at older pieces.
now, i do hope you can forgive me.
Jaie
Jaie>>>Nothing to forgive mate just keep posting your fab art.
thanks dude.
I think I shall!!
chap book, yes! please...
*compliments, Anthony.*
jaie errors make new things, new possibilities maybe it is good you made errors thats how i believe. errors can be helpful
yes. i mean I wouldn't want anyone to think I didn't make mistakes on purpose because I do, not that_
you are right Aaron, last I will say on the subject.
it's to bad we can get everyone's two cents...maybe we should send out an email to everyone?
aaron>>>i agree. sadly reverse metal no longer gets everyones attention. perhaps anthony's monthly posts here should also go via e-mail? we need everyone to be a part of this.
Dear Jaie - Gosh, no problem. Your offerings are, I would say, always interesting, lucid. We all make 'mistakes'. And as Aaron says, often these lead to ideas which might prove useful.
You're amongst friends. We love what you do.
And thank you for your kind words in my direction. Much appreciated.
Dear Aaron, CJ ... All ... In my view, collectives are always a mixed bag; and people's input and efforts vary wildly, as does their attitude to the concept of working in a group situation. I made the point ages ago that contributors to Discharge seldom comment on other people's work. I saw then the same names appearing as commentators. It's the same now; just different names. I was a heavy commentator myself back then. But the disconnected, one-way nature of a lot of Dicharge involvement, as I saw it, was one reason why I shifted my efforts elsewhere, I must confess. I suspect many people look but don't offer any material reaction. It's an open thing. So one has to say there is no problem with that. Still, reciprocity is, I feel the glue that binds things together on-line; and without it, one can feel like one is talking to one's self. Too much of that and it is meaningless.
CJ, you mention that Reverse Metal doesn't get many visitors ... I thought as much! Doubt my blatherings will change that! I found the same problems with other collective ventures I've been involved in.
There's this notion that organisation is too like the real world and, as nihilists and anarchists(!), we should be against such things! Bollocks, I say. Personally, I'm neither a nihilist nor an anarchist. I'm in favour of intelligent structures. Structure enables rather than disables. It has to be the right structure. But trying to avoid any structure is illogical and impossible. Try pressing F on your keyboad and insisting - in some anarchistic frenzy of self - that it's a T. All you get is a typo. Similiarly, blogger itself is a structure. A day has 24 hours. Gravity stops us flying into space. Anarchism is a fantasy. It's philosophically and practically untenable. As such, one is working with some degree of structure - always. That doesn't mean one has to elect a general manager and have a rigid hierarchy. One can be smarter and more radical than that. We'll have to be if Discharge is to continue and progress.
So what will it be folks?
Is Discharge 5 going to be nothing but a recurring shopwindow; or are we going to take the project forward in some meaningful way? If so, that'll require ideas. Those ideas need circulating, socialising. Discussion follows from that.
If discharge 4 consists of - what? - 20 odd people and only 3 or 4 pipe-up with their views about its future, what happens then?
Ruela, by 'history', do you mean Discharge is dead and gone? That's usually what the phrase means in English. Feel sure you don't mean that!
Best wishes
ops oh no, sorry
I mean, we (Discharge) make history!!!
God damn translation ;)
under no circunstances
DISCHARGE RULES!!!
Thanks for the correction M.
hi mates.
i'm not much of a regular contributor nowadays, but i too would like to have my say about the future and present of discharge.
little participation, yes. i myself have kept silent. as i see it, the team has expanded numerically, but not in terms of contribution. with the exception of kinkylube, i think close to none of the recent recruits has been contributing regularly. that's no regret, just what is.
so there are some stalwart contributors, a core, and others who fly around. noone knows who's gonna stick. q: should we demand some degree of commitment? q: too many contributors?
i think aaron's task is outstanding. robert's too, shame he's not posting. rob, kek, cloudboy, inc. ... all gone or invisible. sadly missed. myspace blurs who's doing what and, unlike anthony, i like knowing that. i know a ruela when i see it but sometimes it's not that easy. call me pre-postmodern but i value authorship.
so, what about the next step. a myspace thing... it would be fine by me, though i like blogger much better. i don't care about censorship or rules, and i think that wouldn't affect me, but i believe in people being able to post what they want to. discharge has always felt like a place of freedom, and i would regret that diminishing.
and of course the myspace should always continue to be called "discharge". it is one thing. re-naming it as D5 strikes me as nonsense.
so i'm still filled with doubt, but i think we'll be able to sort things out. i think discharge is here for the long run.
o, inconsequential posted recently. good. i'd like to see more of his stuff. leekwo has added his bit too, if not as dominantly as kinkylube. but i think my point stands.
lazare>>>Your point does stand. Poignantly put too. Discharge is in reality a group of twenty with only five or six actively contributing. Many of the ones who are not regulars are still good and valued but surley less so than ones who contribute regularly? This is not to 'dis' Murmurists of Doriandra both of whom I consider as my friends but there are those who contribute even less than those two and I realy, whilst not wishing to be agressive or finger pointing, are the ines who I would personally ask the question: do you really want to be a part of this magnificent art site or not? Just look at the contribution that Ruela has made or Aaron. Jaie and Robert too. And that is not to overlook Jase and people like him that certainly do contribute but on an irregular basis. There is however, posting on an irregular basis and posting hardly at all. there are far too many people who have joined and who have added sweet FA to the process. I gave up being the organiser for sevral reasons.
1. I don't like being bossed about and I don't feel comfortable doing the self same thing to others.
2. I wanted to see how anarchy would work in a collective situation such as discharge.
3. I thought that, given enough rope we would make a powerful lariat, something that would harness our concepts and energies into one mighty internet force but all we have got, it would seem, is a length of rope that hangs limp. A disconnected idea that is still pregnant with promise but with no engine to push it forward.
By and large the people commenting here are the ones who give energy and focus to discharge. Without us it would be fucked. God bless kinkylube for his endeavours. I think that we need to vote in someone to lead us, some brave apollo. Sadly though, I think such an idea will meet with silence. Perhaps discharge has run its course? I hope not. I for one still like the dual concept of a myspace site and a blog one but something needs to happen; a spark needs to fly to ignite us again. I think that I was that spark in the early days and then we have had a succesion of people who have had a similar effect but anarchy patently doesn't work. The Beatles, in the early days had Lennon. The Pistols, Lydon, The Fall have the Manchester equivalant of Stalin in Mark E Smith. I think that is what is needed here. Someone to lead us, someone to follow BUT an elected someone. And that someone will have to have th eballs to prune and to select. Sadly I am middleaged and my balls hang low and by my knees!
We need more music here, more GIF, more nudity, more punch more get up and fucking go. We are THE web based art forum. Let's kick ass.
To CJ's last comment ... I almost completely agree. I recall a debate we had ages ago about anarchy - which I take to mean, in fact, chaos. I'm a believer in structure, as I've said time and time again. It's not possible to do anything without recourse to some kind of structure. You cite The Fall, CJ. I'm not sure Discharge could be reduced to or rebranded as one person's vision expressed via an endlessly shifting many; which is one way to look at Smith's group. I think Discharge needs to be not so much led from the front as properly and more meaningfully contributed to. You cite posting as a measure of the latter - which seems reasonable enough. I say again, though, I used to post with the best of them; but I got disillusioned because so few comments were offered, and many of those that were were often inane, insubstantial, pithy. So, I gradually withdrew and shifted my efforts to a forum possessing the reciprocity I craved and which art needs. I see no fun or meaning in serially posting into silence.
To Lazare ... I love your work. To me, whether you post everyday or once a month, you always post something interesting. The same is true of others.
There's a lesson in that, I feel. It is a mistake, I'd say, to press the numbers button. Lots of posts does not securely and naturally equate as substance. Quantity can be idle. It can actually be like litter, or weeds, chocking the good stuff.
That said, I'm not against multiples. Some things suit serial posting. I do this myself. Blogging lends itself to this, of course.
The bottom-line - on this issue at least - is, for me, all collectives are somewhat chaotic, with uneven input; all collectives ebb and flow; all contain people of differing views and attitudes. So, if one surrenders to the logic of the collective, one has to surrender to the compromises which it infers upon those involved.
I both love and dislike collectives. I'm involved in several. But I work on my own, too. Neither feels entirely like home. I to and fro. I like it that way.
Discharge will continue so long as someone keeps posting. Whether it really is Dicharge then is a moot point. Has anyone done an audit of who's still actively involved? If you do, please factor in comments too.
i think we should post the dirty stuff on myspace and keep the blog clean. :P
and, if anyone is still interested, i'd love to work on the chapbook, being an obsessive of the old sensual book object. i know i'm never here anymore though, so I'd need input from the more uptodate.
Murmurusts lasyt comment about anarchy...Sadly, although I profess to be an 'anarchist', it is more in the spirit of the dream of anarchy: that is where individuals take responsibility for them selves. They don't drink and drive NOT because the law says they shouldn't but because it is foolish to work any machine whilst pissed or high - children might be accidently killed. Not that I am clean of making mistakes 'cos gods know I have. Anarchy for me is NOT chaos but human kind shouldering responisibilty for their actions. If we did we wouldn't need a police force. This of course will never happen as, by and large, and without meaning to be rude, people are sheep. Society needs leaders as soicety cannot act responsibly for itself.
discharge as an experiment in anarchy has failed. discharge as an creative vehicle has succeded. I think what we now need is for someone to step up to the breach and take control again. Not in a dictatorial way but by common consent.
fissuresofmen>>>A chapbook is the other path we should run down like the mad little hatters we are. I can very easily get it printed but I need help to understand what we need to go in it!
Anarchy!
I have visions of having a chapbook/book. I want to do that, I mean I would like to contribute. And I would consider, contributing nessecary funds to make it be as good as, even if, cost of petrol to get to printers etc, whatever I'll consider it, (it would be nice of me) I'll do it!!! But I really want a chappy.
I like it how it's been, the active members/the ones who care(about the organization, myspace, etc) will take control over certain things of discharge, i don't think it can be run by one person alone, or everyone at once, but by the few people who are actively on should take responsibility in areas, i have times where i don't want to be online, so someone might have to take over on the myspace, i think discharge can still be anarchy, freedom, and the way it's been but some people have to put effort in it in order for it to last. no matter what we do we need some people to keep it going.
well ... the question of what goes in would have to be another question put to those involved. I'd suggest simply announcing that we're doing it, who will be "editing" it, and where to send the pieces, then try to form something out of what comes in ... or we could take a slightly more autocratic / populist approach and just include whatever posts received the most response ... either way, difficult decisions would be involved.
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